I find it disparaging that all of Haidt’s solutions fall on individual parents/families to implement. What about changes to the built environment and vehicle designs that have become deadlier to pedestrians? Even in places where it might be safe for children to walk or bike to play with their friends in person, there is the risk of being reported to CPS for allowing children to do so independently. It’s easy to pile on criticisms to the younger generation, but the replacement of phones for physical communication & friendship isn’t necessarily a choice. I’d be curious to see data on kids’ device usage compared to the popsicle test or other walkability measures in the neighborhoods they live.
In his final chapter on solutions, he does talk quite a bit about the role governments and big tech companies can play in helping address the problems. I agree with you that we do need large agencies and organizations to lead some of that change too. He explains that part of his goal with putting parents and schools in charge is that he wants to put forward changes that are really low cost. Government or tech companies changes can be very expensive, so he wants to find the low-hanging fruit that can help.
I appreciate your reply! I’ve seen a lot of takes on his recent book, but not a lot of discussion on the collectivist solutions. Guess I’ll have to read it myself :)
Agreed that a lot of the book does feel like a “kids these days” narrative, but there are handful of studies in the book that are compelling (like the Alexey Markey one). I like a lot of the counter-evidence studies you show in your piece as well. I’m glad you shared it here
I haven’t found any detailed data, but there are reports that rural areas tend to have higher rates of social associations. However, most of this isn’t broken out for teenagers nor is it connected to social media https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609155/
What is the data set for the social association data? Utah is the state that stands out. Having lived there as a non-Mormon, the Mormon church is not just a religion, but a huge social network where almost every member has a multiple touchpoints to social gatherings and individual meetings.
Is that data overwhelmed by non-middle-class-mormons? Or is it being filtered out?
Yes definitely some interesting patterns start to emerge! Church is definitely included in the data, which comes from the census. You can view the interactive map here. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/5Fi8W/1/
Thanks for this thought provoking article and your obvious deep concern for your fellow Americans, especially young folks. We are descended from ancestral migratory Hunter-Gatherer clans, in which they numbered less than 150 (the Dunbar number) and spent their entire lives in an interdependent network that provided a sense of belonging and being needed that we "modern" can't even imagine. We are now 3,000 times more numerous and the victims of endless diasporas causing increasing disconnection from relatives. J. D. Vance is a good example. I'm a retired psychiatrist and have written an e-book (also PB), "Stress R Us", that takes a deep dive into our current alienation from nature and eachother, and is available for free as a PDF at Stanford. Keep up the great work and writing! Greeley Miklashek, MD
I find it disparaging that all of Haidt’s solutions fall on individual parents/families to implement. What about changes to the built environment and vehicle designs that have become deadlier to pedestrians? Even in places where it might be safe for children to walk or bike to play with their friends in person, there is the risk of being reported to CPS for allowing children to do so independently. It’s easy to pile on criticisms to the younger generation, but the replacement of phones for physical communication & friendship isn’t necessarily a choice. I’d be curious to see data on kids’ device usage compared to the popsicle test or other walkability measures in the neighborhoods they live.
In his final chapter on solutions, he does talk quite a bit about the role governments and big tech companies can play in helping address the problems. I agree with you that we do need large agencies and organizations to lead some of that change too. He explains that part of his goal with putting parents and schools in charge is that he wants to put forward changes that are really low cost. Government or tech companies changes can be very expensive, so he wants to find the low-hanging fruit that can help.
I appreciate your reply! I’ve seen a lot of takes on his recent book, but not a lot of discussion on the collectivist solutions. Guess I’ll have to read it myself :)
Let me know your thoughts after you do
Counterpoint:
{https://open.substack.com/pub/postliberal/p/smartphone-have-not-destroyed-a-generation?r=8su7h&utm_medium=ios}
Agreed that a lot of the book does feel like a “kids these days” narrative, but there are handful of studies in the book that are compelling (like the Alexey Markey one). I like a lot of the counter-evidence studies you show in your piece as well. I’m glad you shared it here
I haven’t found any detailed data, but there are reports that rural areas tend to have higher rates of social associations. However, most of this isn’t broken out for teenagers nor is it connected to social media https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609155/
What is the data set for the social association data? Utah is the state that stands out. Having lived there as a non-Mormon, the Mormon church is not just a religion, but a huge social network where almost every member has a multiple touchpoints to social gatherings and individual meetings.
Is that data overwhelmed by non-middle-class-mormons? Or is it being filtered out?
Yes definitely some interesting patterns start to emerge! Church is definitely included in the data, which comes from the census. You can view the interactive map here. https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/5Fi8W/1/
Thanks for this thought provoking article and your obvious deep concern for your fellow Americans, especially young folks. We are descended from ancestral migratory Hunter-Gatherer clans, in which they numbered less than 150 (the Dunbar number) and spent their entire lives in an interdependent network that provided a sense of belonging and being needed that we "modern" can't even imagine. We are now 3,000 times more numerous and the victims of endless diasporas causing increasing disconnection from relatives. J. D. Vance is a good example. I'm a retired psychiatrist and have written an e-book (also PB), "Stress R Us", that takes a deep dive into our current alienation from nature and eachother, and is available for free as a PDF at Stanford. Keep up the great work and writing! Greeley Miklashek, MD
We‘ve come a long way since then and I don’t think we need to emulate our hunter gatherer past too much. This isn’t Haidt’s point
Really interesting heat maps. Thanks Jeremy.
Is there data showing cities vs. suburbs vs. rural?
"That moment of waiting for a ‘like’ or comment to come in is causing stress and anxiety for teens in regions."
I've noticed this happening to me when I post on here. Scheduling my posts and forgetting about it have been helpful.